How time moves with Squaring Circles
NAARM-BASED EXPERIMENTAL PROJECT SQUARING CIRCLES CHATS TO CH-VOID ABOUT THEIR LATEST RELEASE CIRCLES MAKE LINES SPIRAL AND CREATING ROOM FOR TRANSFORMATIVE EXPERIENCES.
You’re listening to Void Radio. So I’m joined by Lili and Brendan from Squaring Circles. It’s so nice to meet you guys. And as I said, happy Friday. Brendan, where are you in the world right now?
Brendan: I’m currently in the I’ve been here for probably a month now, and I’m going to be here for about another month.
Oh, amazing. And what took you to Berlin? What are you doing?
Brendan: Yeah, I’ve been wanting to come here for a little while, and I have a German passport, so it’s been something in the cards for a while. But I’m currently staying at Art Space in Berlin, a shared art space. And it’s just been a really awesome experience to be able to live with other artists and, I don’t know, explore whatever it means to live in an art space, which is what I’m figuring out right now. But it’s very fun and exciting and it’s great to be over here.
Absolutely. And it must be early for you currently.
Brendan: Yeah. What is it now? People are still awake. It’s 9.30am people are still awake. Sophie: I love that as a measurement of time.
Brendan: People should not be still awake.
And Lili, where are you currently?
Lili: I’m currently in Melbourne. Naarm. And yeah, I just got back recently as well from Europe Travels. The last place I was in was kind of yeah, kind of still there. Also wishing I was in Berlin, but finally in Melbourne.
Yeah, I love that. I feel like you guys are very much then familiar and comfortable almost with transient spaces and that kind of movement between two definite things, which definitely comes across in this body of work. I think the liminality of it is obviously like a very in your face theme. I wanted to ask you guys first, how did you come together as collaborators? What was the connection there?
Lili: We met in our old band Melbourne, and Brendan came from Canberra and yeah, he met us through another guy at Uni. I was like, who’s this guy? And he was a guitarist in our old band and we were pretty close, did a lot of touring and then started this project.
Brendan: This project was definitely coming from an indie rock Triple J band. This was definitely a conscious effort to get away from traditional commercial music and trying to make something that represents transformation. But we’ve known each other what would it be now, Lil? Since 2011.
Lili: I don’t, I’m bad with dates, but yeah, I guess this project was in our old band. I guess we had those spaces where we’d go away and write and we wrote a lot of music. And then I think it was born from the ending of that band and then having a lot of, I guess, tapping into those transformative spaces. We would go away and write in this shack in the Grampians And it was just such a special natural space, a space in nature and place to write –
Brendan: That process kind of can happen in psychedelics if you’re quite aware and quite still and you’ll see there’s a process of dissolution, death and rebirth, so to speak. And it’ll come normally if you’re not paying attention. It’ll feel like you’re just kind of calibrating to the new headspace on a psychedelic trip for people who have done that who are listening. You’ll feel that transition when you’re kind of dissolving into the new state. You’ll feel a sense of dread and you want to pull back and the association with that feeling will come a lot of negative or like repressed images that will start to come up to the surface and people normally will hesitate at that and they’ll kind of pull back. But if you learn how to lean in and you’re good at kind of transitioning, so to speak, it can be immensely liberating if you go with it and you learn this cycle and this relationship of ego, death and rebirth, so to speak. But even semantically that doesn’t really capture it or it doesn’t really say anything but I think from these series of ineffable experiences where I had a series of images and symbols and a voice inside communicate with me and it felt more me than me and makes sense to me now through the unconscious or whatever. I’m very familiar with Carl Jung and a lot of other works in that sort of mode of thought. And yeah, I think coming out of all of these experiences.
There’s an immense desire to want to share this sort of stuff, but you can only express it through symbolism, something that isn’t grounded in words and the limitation of such symbols. So music was the perfect place for us to express it and unfortunately was pretty harsh on the direction of the project, kind of stressing to everyone. And it needs to represent something deeper and it’s got to be an outlet for people who are in transformative states. Whether it be on psychedelics or off. I don’t think psychedelics are the answer at all and I don’t think they’re the greatest thing ever, but they help in our state of the human being and sort of the rationalistic, materialistic approach that we sit in. It’s very important to dissolve those structures and experience something beyond classic semantics or like, thinking to actually experience a thought as opposed to just thinking it. Yes.
Squaring Cycles is really kind of formed to want to express some of these states and the potency of sacredness. Trying to bring back the idea that there’s a difference between the mundane and the sacred. That doesn’t mean the mundane can’t be sacred, but the potency of a space that is sacred. I think the modern day world is lost because we’ve lost meaning, lost the religious pathway. Like the famous saying, Nietzsche says God is dead. I think that the symbols to these ideas have been killed because we’ve kind of messed them up and we feel like religion betrayed us. So we need to find a new way to understand what sacred space is or be shown about it because words don’t mean anything anymore. So it’s like an experience led space that can kind of induce or show people the difference of quality in a mundane moment and a sacred moment which are not even comparable in my experience.
It’s really interesting to me that that kind of definition of, I guess, liminality as sacred does make me wonder, have you had any liminal experiences in mundane moments? Like moments that are not necessarily intentionally liminal but become liminal just by being in them?
Lili: Lock down. Right.
Brendan: Yeah. Wow.
Lili: I was wildly lost. All sort of meaning and connection and really diving deep to connect.
And have you, you know how Brendan described that moment of resistance? That if you push through, you kind of have that breakthrough? Or did you have one of those moments in lockdown where you kind of had to push through that wall?
Lili: Actually, yeah, that was like how liminal was written. And I think that I’m a little bit more resistant and less leaning into that. I tap in in different ways. Definitely. Less in mundane situations a lot more chilled settings. And also I think that finding the liminal spaces in mundane is obviously one of the most powerful skills to have and an eye to have. I think we all see this when we go for a walk or go to get a coffee or whatnot. You’ll have moments where I think the mind’s always being torn between so many different things and you can have a little glimpse. You just can’t hold it for very long. But you can have a little glimpse where you might make eye contact with someone and you smile at them in the morning as you walk by and they might smile back and it might just snap you out of it. Or you might just have some little thing that helps you connect and see kind of a sacred moment in the mundane.
Lili: There’s definitely the way that you tap in and there’s definitely the way that I tap in. And you’re right, it’s definitely more of a relaxed setting from learning how to kind of set up rituals and the space so that you can make it conducive to that feeling when those moments occur. It has happened in more of a pressurized intense setting before as well. But I think the more positive ways that I can sort of grasp and bring it down or share it is probably more that the way I’ve described.
Do you have any rituals that you go back to stoke your creative process?
Lili: I think practices of nature will always connect you back in. Even just lying on your stomach or swimming or something. It’s crazy how you can just feel the connection to that. Like the flow. I don’t know. Not specifically. More like in certain collaborative spaces. And then on my own as well. Beekeeping is like a beautiful practice. I don’t know, it’s more of a connection to this stillness, this ultimately: stillness in you. And then once you have that, that’s when you can really be cleared to think about other things and meditate on what you’re working on. Then you can introduce those thoughts. Yeah, that’s when you can make sense or bring it down to share, right?
Brendan: Yeah. I think it’s interesting with rituals and stuff like that to get into creative headspaces. At a certain point, they become a clutch that they stop becoming potent. And there’s a relative mind trick that all of it’s pretend. Like if you really want to induce a creative state, you can use tricks of association. So one example is music. I put on Radiohead, any Radiohead song ever, especially after Kid A, it hits you. You have no choice when you listen to music. Depending on how still you can become or how much baggage you bring to the song. It’s like when you put a needle on a record, it’s just a fucking scratch of plastic and somehow this scratching plastic makes a noise of a dead person like 60 years ago from a needle moving in the scratch. It’s absurd, but I think it’s the same idea when you listen to a song. If I listen to a classical piece by Eric Satie or I listen to John Coltrane The Greatest Ever or if I listen to Radiohead, there’ll be distinct personalities that I invoke. I don’t bring them up. They just appear through association of the tone of the music. I have a dormant personality that kind of becomes that headspace. If I listen to classical music I can induce such strange personalities that seem like a really old man, the observer sitting in front of the ideal and is kind of overwhelmed by the emotional gap between the individual and the ideal.
And then classical music for me is that where if I hear jazz, it’s more like the Hindu thing or the Buddhist Zen thing, where you’re in it and you’re chill and it’s like where classical is like the extremity. It almost reminds me of Christianity and the whole idea of guilt and shame and trying to go to an ego death through guilt and shame. Which is a classic Christian kink, I find, but a useful kink nonetheless.
But I find for me personally, trying to get in these headspaces, reading for me, reading is so important because just like when you listen to a song and it induces a certain state, I think reading you actually evoke the person because you’re reading an order of words that have never been put together before and it’s their train of thought. So you’re following their train of thought and I think you bring them to life. So when I read other books, especially, I’m always fascinated by books surrounding any sort of esoteric theology, any sort of deeply symbolic work where, depending on your temperament, you can unlock the symbolism, so to speak. Some people aren’t still enough, can’t unlock it or see imagery when they read it. But I love reading Neoplatonism. I’m so obsessed with Neoplatonism at the moment and every time I read Neoplatonism it’s like I’m meditating on stillness because all it is doing is just giving me these symbols that are helping me kind of reach that same state. And I find it almost as effective as a transformative experience, whether it’s on or off psychedelics, immensely.
I think it’s important to not just think psychedelics are the best and psychedelics are for everyone. That’s not true. I think just meditating– I’ve done one of those ten day Vipassanas or whatever. That’s a skill that’s super important to learn how to get into states without anything. And none of these things are mundane. Everything is so intense. If you actually think about it, everything’s so trippy. It’s not what we think it is. Nothing looks like this. This is the shadow of things we cannot see because our senses are so limited to induce that other, like flipping it the other way around. The esoteric point of view where we are again, shadows of things we can’t see. But I think the modern day world, we see everything. We think that’s what it is and it’s so ignorantly, stupid and so childish of us.
But I think going back to the ritual thing, I smoke a little bit of weed and I think that that’s an example of a clutch where people will just use it and expect a result. But it doesn’t work like that. There’s so much more to it. Your emotional disposition at the time, so many other things. Me putting Aphex Twin or John Frusciante or Coltrane. Wow. The states of the inner world. It connects me to the childlike self. It takes me to that place. When you listen to music, it reminds you of home, but you don’t know what home is. It’s this familiar thing you’re searching for, the ideal that you know you’re going to get to or something weird goes on like that. And yeah, I feel that all of this stuff is bathing me in that state. So it’s really just a way to get to a non self state or less egotistical state. The issue with rituals, sometimes it becomes dogmatic. People identify, like hold onto it, and they think that this is the thing, and then it loses its power. Obviously.
I think that’s very much like what we call the void.
Lili: The home space.
That’s also a little bit terrifying. When you are kind of like dancing around the edge of it, you’re not sure whether to go deeper or pull back. So yeah, I really appreciate the long winded answer around that because I do think it is difficult, as you said, semantically, to make any meaning of certain feelings. How do we use the limited language know, actually encapsulate these things is always something that I’m wondering. How do you both feel about this idea of sensitivity? That was something you mentioned, Brendan, of tuning into certain things and being in– that kind of, it’s kind of vulnerable– but that receptivity. Is that something that you guys have always been comfortable with or have kind of grown to make more safety in?
Brendan: I think me and Lil are both deeply sensitive people and it’s a curse in a way, sensitivity just like empathy or something. And I find it’s something that you have to slowly refine and understand how to protect that sensitivity, how to nurture it. Passivity. That’s a very interesting word because my experience with going passive, it’s like the void, for example, when people speak of the void, how dare I even say that word? I love this sort of thinking. When I think about obstructions, like the void. The void people tend to think of is as an emptiness. It’s really a no-thingness, no-thing. It’s transcendent of any distinction because it’s a true unitary so it actually can’t sit in any opposite, any determination. It’s indeterminate. So it’s like they call it the unmoved mover or something, before distinction.
Connection to oh my God, I lost my train of thought. This happens so much when I talk way too fast and go on a sidetrack. But I think with sensitivity, to be really actively passive is such an art form of being so aware of your surroundings but you’re not observing them. It’s like you’re one with them, so to speak. You feel the sound, you don’t judge the sound, you don’t dissect the sound with that level of sensitivity. Like I was trying to say before, you’ve got to protect your sensitivity because the amount of people I know, especially in the arts world and in Melbourne who are so sensitive and have so much empathy that it really hurts them, it’s always a massive problem. So I think with any form of passivity you need a certain really balanced form of assertiveness and definition of being able to define, especially if we’re talking about transformative space. It’s so essential to understand your thing and the ability to define that and then your ability to let go of.
Lili: That level of engaging or encasing your sensitivity with ego in terms of positive ego directing, asserting or just like boundaries or I guess being comfortable going into those states where you are tapped in but then protecting that.
Brendan: As you said, it’s almost like when people brag about virtues or when we talk about virtues and you see these people who are like oh, I’m doing this for a virtuous reason but they’re really doing it from insecurity, they’re not doing it for a virtuous reason. I think maybe you have to balance things with the opposite. And this is something we all face as musicians or any creative, this mixing of two worlds of trying to be an artist but then trying to have the business frame of mind, trying to do all these different things. We get hurt so much when we just feed the sensitive creative side and we don’t feed the masculine assertive distinction side alongside that feminine opening up and dissolving introverted extrovertedness.
Lili: I guess being going through lockdowns and stuff, I guess we’re quite isolated. And then through kind of entering into new work and really cutting things like our work out for ourselves, like sort of starting to use new gear and have a bit of a new direction. I think leaning into a bit of vulnerability and kind of reaching out to community and some new collaborators and I think community and putting yourself out of your comfort zone and getting out of your head. I think that’s really important in just learning those asserting yourself, defining yourself. Obviously it’s so sacred and precious having close collaborators for a long time. But I also think it’s really good just to practice in a few different spaces and with other people and travel, and it’s good for that.
It kind of leads me to my next question. Where did the name Squaring Circles come from? Is that referencing a particular thing or point in time? I mean, thematically, it’s making a lot of sense to me right now.
Brendan: It just seemed appropriate. There’s a lot of different names we were playing with, and it seemed the most fitting because it seemed playful, Squaring Circles. But it represents the idea of trying to be the shaman in someone’s ear when they’re having a transformative moment. And I wanted to be in the most intimate moment with someone and just be there with them and be the person guiding them through it. That was always the kind of dream with this project. But the name Squaring Circles kind of really encapsulates the idea of when you’re a musician, you make a song. A lot of songs from my experience, they already exist somewhere, and they just come out and I fail. Every time I work on a song and we try to finish it, we get to a point where you have to fail. You have got to incarnate the image and you have to define it. To define it is to kill it.
So then this thing I hear in my ear when I listen to the song because I’m hearing what it can be, then I have to let that go. And music is learning how to fail less. Expressing the image. I think it’s a bit ignorant anyway, because really it’s so rude of me to express the image and not actually emanate the image and try and embody the image. So art is actually a bit embarrassing because we pass it onto an object. We do experience a transformation ourselves when we do pass it onto an object. But sometimes we miss the point because we actually don’t understand that the transformation takes place in us. The symbol actually takes place in us.
Lili: It’s like the whole point, right? It’s like you have this sort of idea in your head, or this conceived when the first song comes about or the artwork, and then you try and make it, and it’s never quite exactly as you think it’s going to be. So I think it’s just learning from those experiences and just being like, okay, well, what’s next? Perfectionism is, I think every artist or people that make and practice making things, always it’s like something that you grapple with. And I think that in that process there is so much to learn and it keeps you going. It keeps you in these cycles of self learning and transforms you. So I guess that’s why you keep going back and having to do this.
Sophie: I love that. I love the whole idea of what you work on, works on you. Like, it is like a reciprocating relationship. The things that we do, do things to us. It’s very interesting, very beautiful.
Lili: When you’ve completely failed, it’s like if you give it a little bit of time, there’s always like a crumb or something of what is next or it’s leading you into what you want to do next time, or for me, it’s like I just keep on moving and I’m just so excited by what almost I’ve done. Shit, I don’t know. That’s the only mentality that actually gets me anywhere. Because it is easy to be so sensitive that you just feel like a failure.
Sophie: Right now you’re in a transformation of sorts. Is there a particular thing that you’re focused on right now as individuals or maybe as a group?
Lili: Well, yeah, we’re a little bit dispersed, I guess. We’re in transformation, I guess. Kind of like letting go of things when you’ve finally put something out that’s taken them a long time. So it took quite a while writing the album, a few years and yeah, many different phases and lockdowns and iterations and throwing songs in, pulling them back, which has kind of driven us a bit crazy, this process. But right now I think it’s just being a little bit separated and working on our own craft and like, potency as people that can come together and make music. And also yeah, Sam, our drummer, and Brendan are in Berlin doing this residency, going to be doing a show, and I think it’s a good time for just experimentation and the next process, which is getting ready for the live element. To bring it to life and really enjoy that and apply creativity to that. It’s a second chance of process. It’s really exciting.
That’s my favorite part, I guess. And if you know what you want and how things feel, you can really give yourself when you go into that space, because that’s a transformative space. Going to people’s gigs. I’ve seen some absolutely beautiful performances recently in Melbourne. It’s like if you’re locked in and organized and in the city, you make the most of it. There’s so much good stuff on there’s so many people creating and giving and yeah, if you can actually really give something, that’s all I would really strive to do and all I really want to do in this space. Yeah, it’s exciting. I think it’s going to be fun doing shows.
Brendan: I think that we’re at a stage of life where it’s a bit more intense. Like, we’re in our 30s, so we’re seeing a crazy shift with all our friends, everyone’s having fucking children and shit. Like, it’s cute and all, but Christ, especially after COVID everyone just like, aged ten years for some reason. And it’s really intense. It’s really intense. It’s really intense going through life you get stuck in five years ago, ten years ago, and you kind of get a bit associated with where you’re actually at. And to actually be present with that and sit with that is really, like, a lot sometimes, especially in our 30s, it’s tough.
Coming out of lockdown was like it was really depressing going through lockdown, like, really depressing because nothing was happening. Like, when you hold your breath, you get brain damage and there wasn’t any movement. So to have no movement is horrific. Even if it was a horrific experience happening, at least it’s an extreme experience that you can etch out character or get something out of it, even the negatives that come with that. But the stillness of it as an artist was impossible to create. I could not see the horizon. There’s nothing to look forward to, no kind of fantasy to engage with. It just felt dark and it felt wrong to go inwards and try and find imagery during that period of time.
It’s interesting, but obviously I’m over in Berlin at the moment and for me personally this was about trying to get out of a personal story of being too muscly or something that I get looked at as a toxic masculine guy and all this stuff like that. But it’s because of my sensitivity that if I see someone looking unsure about me, I get really shy and I love Melbourne, by the way. Everyone knows this about the Melbourne crowd. With every cool crowd, there’s always a crowd that has like a gatekeeper attached to it that doesn’t really give, they just kind of take. But yeah, for me, it was to kind of get out of Melbourne because I really struggle to participate in Melbourne because I feel like everything’s so judged and it’s me, it’s my own anxiety. So I’ve tried to come overseas to re engage with my practice in a place where I feel like I’m not being seen or I’m not being judged to practice my craft or to practice to be more vulnerable and more open. And then when I come back, hopefully I can see that it’s not as judgy as it is. It was my anxiety of being more introverted and more isolated and just working from the home studio all the time and cutting myself off to work, which is, unfortunately, you can go in everything’s inwards, but it’s also outwards and sharing and collaborating. Sometimes collaborating sucks, which me and Lil learn. It can be hard collaborating with people, especially when they don’t fucking listen.
Lili: But I think it’s the definition of collaboration.
Brendan: They don’t want to collaborate.
Sophie: Yeah. Are we all on the same page about what collaboration means?
Brendan: Yeah, fully. But it’s obviously hard with art and creative things. And it’s very important to have those moments too, when you’re passionate about stuff and you’re having a bit of a conflict to learn how to verbalize it. And there’s an opportunity to grow and learn how to communicate with what you want. Which is super important, especially these days. So important to have the skill to say what you want in an uncomfortable situation, especially in art. There’s a lot of passion. It’s not like it’s not work, it’s something else.
I mean, Lil, you kind of touched on the fact that you’re really excited to after you’ve kind of integrated this massive journey of putting this body of work out, you can’t wait for kind of the performance side of things. What’s on the cards for you guys in the coming year or so?
Lili: Yeah, we’re doing shows. Jan, Feb. Some summer shows. We’ll try and do maybe Canberra and then Sydney.
Who’s your ideal crowd to play to? Do you have such a thing?
Brendan: The anti cool crowd.
Lili: The anti cool crowd.
Brendan: Anyone who will listen.
Lili: I love weird shows where things go wrong or you’re like up real close or there’s no one there. Yeah, but I think just playing more, actually just playing more and also playing with other inspirational artists and friends and stuff.
Brendan: That’s the vibe. Squaring Circles as whatever we are. We’re in a stage where we’re trying to learn more about electronic music. So this album I was really frustrated with this album so much because the first album was so eclectic in terms of its periphery, so wide, so deep, a lot going on. And it kind of wrote itself. It really did write itself, even though it still took a long time. But the actual moments of creativity flowed very quickly. This album, we had probably like 70 to 80 really out there songs and to try and evolve them and finish them. To the degree of the first album, it was too difficult because we’re coming out of COVID we didn’t really have any other musicians to work with because it’s the sort of stuff that you go crazy working on it because you kind of just keep going deeper and deeper articulating it. But that genre, like Aphex Twin, Seafield, I don’t know, Boards of Canada, people in that sort of bracket, that’s where we’re trying to steer towards. So we’re trying to learn and put ourselves in a situation to develop those skills, which is what I’m trying to do in Berlin now. And when we go back and we do shows over summer, we’re slowly shifting towards this 90s IDM, sort of that’s the only way I can describe it, but more electronic, representing the same sort of headspace, but an electronic sphere.
The music at the moment now is kind of I don’t want to say lukewarm, but, like, lukewarm as in: in the middle. It’s like we’re very happy with it but as a perfectionist, never truly happy with any work you put out, but I think it’s a good sort of representation of the direction we’re heading and the shift we’re making and trying to be more in the foreground, trying to get people’s attention more so they either hate us or they like us. I think the first record was more peripheral and inviting you to see the complexity and the intensity of everything is all there all the time. So you can either listen to it like that or you can just have it in the background. That music was very symbolic of that silent center that’s always overflowing and giving itself. And if you just listen to it, it’s there, but it’s quiet.
I think now it’s a bit more like, nah, we want to jump in the face of people, be more loud, be more direct, and not get stuck in traditional forms of songwriting, being tempted by the lame, silly stuff of wanting to get big or connect or whatever, which is ludicrous and embarrassing. And the whole music industry is riddled with embarrassing sort of flavor, where people just do it for ego attention and stuff, and I got no time for this. So I think it’s important for us that our music has always been about asking is this transformative? Is this going to help someone in the state transform? Not about all our content, which we make ourselves begrudgingly. It’s annoying to play the other side of it, but it’s so necessary. And, yeah, I think, yeah, we’re quite into the shift and hopefully in summer we can incorporate a lot more and people can see this new side to us when we do shows.
Well, I’m excited to kind of see how this next album comes together and where that journey leads you guys, because you can tell you’re onto something like you’re at the beginning of almost like the forest path with this first album and the way you’ve described the next one, I’m, like, can’t wait to be in the jungle, in the thick of it.
But I wanted to end with two just rapid fire questions. Kind of like first answer that comes to your mind.
Who is both of your respective dream collaborator? If you could get one person on the next album, who would it be?
Lili: Holy shit.
Dead or alive.
Lili: Thom Yorke.
Brendan: It’s too obvious. It’s too obvious for me. Maybe Dua Lipa, Aphex Twin.
Lili: Yeah, Dua Lipa for sure.
Dua lipa (laughs).
Brendan: If I could say two, it’d probably be Aphex Twin, or John Frusciante or something. But Dua Lipa first.
Lili: We’ve definitely got a big soft spot for, like, Poppy stuff.
Brendan: Dua Lipa’s not allowed to sing, she just talks, she just has to talk. With a British accent.
I love this conceptual album already, Thom Yorke talking to Dua Lipa, John Frusciante and Aphex Twin.
Lili: Amazing. The spoken word in Macarena is, like, iconic.
Brendan: Oh, my Lord.
And I think that the last question, again, can be as abstract as you like, but what is one thing you think people should try?
Lili: Oh my God.
Brendan: Vietnamese Coffee.
Lili: Pistachio Paste.
Is there a recommended way to use the Pistachio Paste?
Lili: Just straight from the jar.
Guys thank you so much for spending this time chatting, it’s definitely been a really interesting conversation and there’s a lot of discs spinning for me personally after being here in this space with you guys.
Lili: You absolutely indulged us.
Brendan: Yeah. Thank you for having us on and for having such good questions.
No, absolutely. And as I said, I hope we can get you on for whenever the next album comes up. Maybe if it’s in three years time. That’s totally fine. We’ll wait.
Brendan: Yeah, no, that sounds good. Yeah. It’s really nice to be able to have a long form interview like this and to have such attentiveness. It’s been really good questions and we really appreciate sharing such topics in an open forum like this. It’s important, I think, so it’s much respected. And our last thing to maybe say is a huge thank you to everyone who was involved in the album, from Hamish, to all the people, the musicians involved, sam, Sam, Sam, Sam, Sam, Sam and Samuel, ed, Bud mastering, Jim mixing and everyone else I’ve forgotten. Thank you so much. And anyone who actually listens to us, which I don’t know, there are many, but if there is, and anyone watching this, thank you so much and we hope you enjoy whatever we put out. So, yeah, thank you.